Something we should ponder about

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Something we should ponder about

Post by dorje on Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:42 pm

I believe I have posted this before in BC. It begs reading and contemplation again and again.

Satirical Advice for the 4 Schools

Jamgon Mipham Rinpoche


Namo manjushriye!

Through the enlightened activity of the victorious buddhas,
And the skilful means of their bodhisattva heirs,
May the four schools of buddhist teachings, old and new,
Successfully transmit their perfect methods of awakening!

The authoritative transmission of sutras, the Gendenpa,
The authoritative transmission of mantra, the Nyingmapa,
The authoritative transmission of exposition, the Sakyapa,
And the authoritative transmission of practice, the Kagyüpa.

The Sakyapas are the masters of learning,
The Gendenpas are the masters of discourse,
The Kagyüpas are the masters of realization,
And the Nyingmapas are the masters of spiritual power.

These are the four marvellous transmissions of the teachings:
The Nyingmapas whose view is beyond all extremes,
The Kagyüpas who persevere in meditation,
The Gendenpas with their perfect conduct,
And the Sakyapas with their regular practice of approach and accomplishment.

Although they all possess infinite qualities,
Each one emphasizes a particular practice.
Nyingmapas chant through their noses,
Sakyapas chant with their lips,
Gendenpas create the melodies mainly in their throats,
And Kagyüpas chant strongly from deep down inside.

The Gendenpas maintain the complete path of scriptural study, so they are like the body of the teachings.
The Sakyapas bring together sutra and mantra approaches, so they are like the eyes of the teachings.
The Kagyüpas bring everything together into the single practice of devotion, so they are like the heart of the teachings.
The Nyingmapas possess the profound key instructions of the tantras and sadhanas, so they are like the life-force of the teachings.



Now for a few words in jest:

The Nyingmapas claim they have a path for accomplishing the level of Vajradhara through the practice of clear light Dzogpachenpo, without the need to rely upon an external consort and so on, and yet the lamas say they must take a wife in order to increase their longevity, improve the clarity of their vision, maintain good health, assist in the revelation of termas and accomplish the welfare of beings. They don’t say that in order to benefit the teachings they should teach and practise! That taking a wife could be a way to benefit the teachings and beings, and a substitute for teaching and practice, and at the same time improve clarity of vision and so on, is, I think, incredible!

The Gendenpas claim the antidote to all the pains of existence is the wisdom which realizes selflessness, and yet when they approach the realization of no-self they are so afraid to let go of this sense of identity that they can not sit still upon their cushions. In the past it was said that the attainment of the path of seeing and the clear experience of selflessness that precedes it are marked by special feelings of joy, so I think this must be a symptom of the current degenerate age!

The Sakyapas make the supreme assertion that one should not place too much emphasis on conduct because inner wisdom is the most important thing, and yet when they recite the Lamdü Hevajra sadhana, they maintain the discipline of never leaving their seats, because to do so would transgress their vow. If they ever did need to get up and do something, they would have to drag their seats behind them, such are their rites of purification and liberation based on time and the physical body. I wonder what would happen to them if they did leave their seats!

The Kagyüpas assert that the Great Mudra is the wisdom which pervades all samsara and nirvana, and yet they think of the word ‘mudra’ as referring to one’s hands. I wonder what such an enormous hand would look like!

Ha ha ha! That was all said in jest.

The teachings of the great masters are rich in meaning,
And each school has its own unique vision and key instructions.

Most followers of the Nyingma school shun the taking of life but think that there is no need to give up women. If they are a genuine yogins, I take refuge in them! But in general this ordinary sexual desire is harmful to the Nyingma teachings, so take care, I pray!

Most followers of the Kagyü school dislike classical exposition and logic, preferring the approach that is based purely on mind and meditation. If they are those in whom realization and liberation are simultaneous, I take refuge! But in general this closed-minded attitude is harmful to the Kagyü teachings and must be abandoned!

Most followers of the Genden school do not see any fault in taking life, but their aggression is harmful to the Genden teachings, so take care, I pray!

Most followers of the Sakya school regard as supreme only those empowerments and instructions they themselves have received and the particular branch to which they belong—be it Sakya, Ngor or Tsar—but this strong prejudice and dogmatism is harmful to the Sakya teachings, so it needs to be abandoned!

Generally, even if one has attachment to one’s own tradition it is important to avoid any antipathy towards other traditions. If we consider just our own tradition, since we are all followers of the Buddha, we can consider that we are all closely related. The different systems of teachings began at the time of Khenpo Shantarakshita, Guru Rinpoche and King Trisong Detsen, and, following the noble traditions of the past, all the schools in Tibet accept the four seals which are the hallmark of the buddhist teachings. We are all equal in this respect, and what is more we all assert the great shunyata free from conceptual elaboration. Not only that, we all accept the mantrayana with its inseparable unity of bliss and emptiness. This means that we are exceptionally close in terms of our view and our tenets.

Other traditions, non-buddhist outsiders and philosophical extremists, who differ even in terms of outer signs and dress, are as numerous as the stars in the night sky, and by comparison we buddhists are as rare as stars in broad daylight. Now, when the buddhist teachings are on the verge of extinction, all who seek to ensure their survival must view one another as the closest of allies. Any feelings of hostility will bring only ruin, so instead we must regard each other with joy, like a mother seeing her only child, or a beggar discovering a priceless treasure.

Having become followers of the same teacher,
May all who are students of these same teachings,
Abandon any hostility and prejudiced views,
And work together with a sense of joy!

Whoever practises in accordance with the true meaning of the teachings,
Be they from one’s own or another tradition, may they gain accomplishment,
So that the four great buddhist schools here within the Land of Snows,
Come to blaze in dazzling splendour with a wealth of Dharma teachings,
And gain complete success and universal victory!

This was written playfully at the request of a friend who has the intelligence to follow all four schools—Sakya, Nyingma, Kagyü and Gelug. Mangalam!
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by caz namyaw on Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:15 am

And words of wisdom.

All 4 traditions are paths to the same goal of enlightenment, although there may be a great deal of variety by mastering soley one of these 4 traditions you will master them all.
The paths have been laid out accordingly, The goal is insight, dont stray from the path practise purely in accordence with your own tradition. But this neednt mean that we develop negative minds toward other traditions as we are all travellers on the path we just take different routes thats all.
By practising in accordence with the traditions purely then we will attain the ultimate goal.
By mixing are trying to cut our own way toward the goal but lack the wisdom to get their.
Do not stray from the path.

peace

xxx
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by dorje on Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:54 am

Emptiness.

How can taking one part of a lineage's practice and adding to your own practice be harmful, if everything is empty of any inherent existence?
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by caz namyaw on Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:28 am

dorje wrote:Emptiness.

How can taking one part of a lineage's practice and adding to your own practice be harmful, if everything is empty of any inherent existence?

Lets not forget that everything is empty, even poison is empty but i wouldnt consider mixing that with my food. Not that im trying to releate poison and other forms of dharma what im saying is that seeing as we are deluded beings and the paths have been so kindly set out for us by realized renowned accomplish masters we should follow in their example and practise what they have decided to give us. mixing traditions degnerates them into a mishmash of our own making. Each path is complete and doesnt need to be mixed for results of enlightenment to occur.
As a result when we mix paths or try to cut our own way through them by practising loads of things from every tradition we are poisoning the purity of our kind teachers with our own delusion and ignorance.

You dont need to practise other traditions, nor should you feel the need to they all lead to the same goal. The only reason one would need to practise a mishmash of all 4 would be that their tradition is incorrect and worthless, seeing as non of them are its insulting practise your main lineage with another as what are you trying to accomplish ? Through completeing on path you will attain the same goal of all 4.

peace

xxx
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by LauraJ on Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:33 am

Hi Dorje,

That was fun, thank you! I enjoyed. And the message is a good one.


:campfire:

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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by sherab zangpo on Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:31 am

caz namyaw wrote:we are poisoning the purity of our kind teachers with our own delusion and ignorance.




Not all teachers are realized, not all students are deluded.

Something to contemplate perhaps?
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by dorje on Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:08 am

I think we should realize that when Ju Mipham Rinpoche, Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye, Jamyang Khyentse and so on, started to take these teachings and integrate them for practice, the various lineages across the traditions were extinguishing at an alarming rate. The Barom Kagyu tradition, for example, was almost extinct. Even certain lineages of the Gelugs were extinguishing.

If we do not honor them and revere them, I think we are doing ourselves a great disservice. If the great Rime masters did not work to preserve these teachings and lineages by constantly teaching and practicing and training new students and lineage holders, the Buddhadharma of Tibet would have degenerated to extinction long ago, not surpassing their time, especially when the Gelugs who followed Pabongkhapa were actively destroying the Nyingma and Kagyu temples and monasteries.
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by caz namyaw on Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:38 am

sherab zangpo wrote:
caz namyaw wrote:we are poisoning the purity of our kind teachers with our own delusion and ignorance.




Not all teachers are realized, not all students are deluded.

Something to contemplate perhaps?

Perhapes or perhapes that means one should spend time actaully studying ones own tradition before making the results as inconclusive as to practise more.
Practise purely.

peace

xxx
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by sherab zangpo on Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:56 am

The Buddha Shakyamuni didnt teach about schools.
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by caz namyaw on Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:18 pm

sherab zangpo wrote:The Buddha Shakyamuni didnt teach about schools.

Nope he only taught the path, to preserve the lineage schools where formed to help flourish the unique teachings buddha had given.

peace

xxx
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by sherab zangpo on Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:26 pm

No, traditions preserve their "tawa" or view, nothing else. Since being a scholar with a view cannot liberate one from samsara, clinging to it, keeps one firmly in worldly matters.

In fact it is a diversion.
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by dorje on Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:36 pm

What's wrong with looking at other viewpoints? It seems that looking at only from one viewpoint is very myopic, when all the paths lead to the same destination.

Who knows, you might find a shortcut or two.
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi on Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:55 pm

dorje wrote:Emptiness.

How can taking one part of a lineage's practice and adding to your own practice be harmful, if everything is empty of any inherent existence?

If you stick a fork in your hand the fork is empty of inherent existence but it will still hurt.

:shock:

However IMHO all 4 schools indeed teach the one taste of emptiness. Nothing wrong with gathering as much understanding from as many sources as possible. Viva la rime.

:dancing:
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by caz namyaw on Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:43 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
dorje wrote:Emptiness.

How can taking one part of a lineage's practice and adding to your own practice be harmful, if everything is empty of any inherent existence?

If you stick a fork in your hand the fork is empty of inherent existence but it will still hurt.

:shock:

However IMHO all 4 schools indeed teach the one taste of emptiness. Nothing wrong with gathering as much understanding from as many sources as possible. Viva la rime.

:dancing:

One path one tradition by mastering one you will master all.

peace

xxx
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by caz namyaw on Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:45 pm

dorje wrote:What's wrong with looking at other viewpoints? It seems that looking at only from one viewpoint is very myopic, when all the paths lead to the same destination.

Who knows, you might find a shortcut or two.

NO each path leads to enlightenment, through different methods.
Mixing the methods you dont know what you will get.
Pure practise is through sticking to one path, little progress will be made if you continually look to other schools for different view points.
There is no short cut these will lead to the same place, its rather sad to think that people beleive that one path cannot lead them to enlightenment.

peace

xxx
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by Element on Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:19 pm

sherab zangpo wrote:Since being a scholar with a view cannot liberate one from samsara, clinging to it, keeps one firmly in worldly matters.

In fact it is a diversion.
Buddha taught Right View. Your view of 'no views' is wrong view. Right View liberates from samsara, the samsara of dukkha. cherry

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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by LauraJ on Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:45 pm

Hi Caz,

When you write "pure practice," or "practice purely," do you basically mean staying within your sect or tradition? Or do you mean something else?

Best,
Drolma

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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by Will on Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:46 pm

Attachment to Right View results in partiality as one tries to herd others toward it and away from Wrong View.

Confidence in & understanding of Right View is all that is needed, but no attachment to it.
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi on Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:58 pm

Are the 4 schools really that different that we have to restrict ourselves? If one path leads to the result why not treat all as one path?
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by dorje on Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:02 am

Chimey Dorje Rinpoche has already stated:

"How can there possibly be any difference between the view of prajnaparamita, which is
the very nature of Chö, and the view of the Great Perfection? They are completely
identical! Mahamudra, Dzogchen and Chö ultimately converge at the same state. There
isn't the slightest difference, is there?"
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by zenzen on Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:17 am

Right view is the emanation, the result, the side effect, of no-mind-no-thought. As such, it is like all other views. A view.
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:35 pm

zenzen wrote:Right view is the emanation, the result, the side effect, of no-mind-no-thought. As such, it is like all other views. A view.

Yeah but is that right view? :rottentomato:
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by caz namyaw on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:50 pm

Drolma wrote:Hi Caz,

When you write "pure practice," or "practice purely," do you basically mean staying within your sect or tradition? Or do you mean something else?

Best,
Drolma

By this i mean practise purely with your own tradition the great masters worked so hard to accomplish different doctrines to suit the needs of individuals that it is a great waste and rather insulting to them by practising with other traditions as almost to say this tradition isnt complete so i shall practise with others.

Rime is a best a political movement designed to consolidate spiritual and political power over tibet with one person.

Pure practise is practising one unmixed doctrine, they are all pure and do not need to be mixed it just pollutes the dharma futher for future generations who will have a mishmash of all different traditions and all special qualities will be lost.

Degeneration is happening now and people are loving it, guided in a mask of non sectarianism Spiritual mixing is creating in complete doctrines and practitoners who will accomplish little as they hop different paths and methods.

If you do not wish your tradition to become quickly extinct then preserve its teachings an authenticity by practising that path.

One path will lead to all accomplishments, practising many different paths together will lead to very little.

peace

xxx
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by caz namyaw on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:55 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Are the 4 schools really that different that we have to restrict ourselves? If one path leads to the result why not treat all as one path?

Because each one is not the same although they all lead to the same result the methods differ, Each founder has laid out the path perfectly as a way to enlightenment but if we stray from our teachers path and listen to a whole host of instructions we will end up being confused and torn between many different directions.

By accomplishing the teachings of one of the 4 schools you attain the accomplishment of the rest, and enlightened mind see's all and if truely there where no problem with practising many paths surely all the schools very many centuries earlier would have become one giant organisation, seeing as they have not however...

peace

xxx
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Re: Something we should ponder about

Post by dorje on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:10 pm

The methods are the same. Thogal and trekchod of Dzogchen is essentially congruent to the generation and completion stages of HYT.

The only difference is terminology, but then again all the terminology is talking about the same thing.

The results of all the methods is also the same: rainbow body or jalu.
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