Healthy Dalai Lama 'won't seek rebirth'

Dharmsala, India -- The Tibetan spiritual leader, the
Dalai Lama, in an interview with Taiwan television aired on Sunday,
said he is in excellent health - but won't seek reincarnation.

http://buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=42,7869,0,0,1,0

May he live long!

Oh dear, he wont seek rebirth ? i thought the whole point of it was to help spread the buddhadharma....i wonder if there are other reasons maybe ?

peace

xxx

How about the Chinese selecting the next Dalai Lama for a reason? Duh.

thecap wrote:How about the Chinese selecting the next Dalai Lama for a reason? Duh.

Well they are going to do that anyway......besides this should be free of political reasons..... :banghead:

peace

xxx

caz namyaw wrote:Well they are going to do that anyway......

But it will have less effect, less conflict, & less deaths. No one will take the fake Dalai Lama serious, when there is no true Dalai Lama to compete with. Tenzin Gyatso is wise.

besides this should be free of political reasons..... :banghead:

Finally, we agree on something.  

thecap wrote:

caz namyaw wrote:Well they are going to do that anyway......

But it will have less effect, less conflict, & less deaths. No one will take the fake Dalai Lama serious, when there is no true Dalai Lama to compete with. Tenzin Gyatso is wise.

besides this should be free of political reasons..... :banghead:

Finally, we agree on something.

Well i suppose when the dalai lama passess away hopefully thing will go back to some relative normality the dalai lamas political interference with tibet had actually probley made the situation worse for monks there then it already was.

peace

xxx

caz namyaw wrote:Well i suppose when the dalai lama passess away hopefully thing will go back to some relative normality the dalai lamas political interference with tibet had actually probley made the situation worse for monks there then it already was.

Speculative talking of a sentient being like an object that passes away, is that what they taught you?

thecap wrote:

caz namyaw wrote:Well i suppose when the dalai lama passess away hopefully thing will go back to some relative normality the dalai lamas political interference with tibet had actually probley made the situation worse for monks there then it already was.

Speculative talking of a sentient being like an object that passes away, is that what they taught you?

Excuse me.....dont presume to project your delusions on to me captin.

kiman wrote:Dharmsala, India -- The Tibetan spiritual leader, the
Dalai Lama, in an interview with Taiwan television aired on Sunday,
said he is in excellent health - but won't seek reincarnation.

http://buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=42,7869,0,0,1,0

I don't know what to think of this. Why is he leaving it up to the people if he should reincarnate? I read the article but still don't quite understand.

Thanks for any explanations

caz namyaw wrote:

thecap wrote:

caz namyaw wrote:Well they are going to do that anyway......

But it will have less effect, less conflict, & less deaths. No one will take the fake Dalai Lama serious, when there is no true Dalai Lama to compete with. Tenzin Gyatso is wise.

besides this should be free of political reasons..... :banghead:

Finally, we agree on something.

Well i suppose when the dalai lama passess away hopefully thing will go back to some relative normality the dalai lamas political interference with tibet had actually probley made the situation worse for monks there then it already was.

peace

xxx

Well i suppose when the sharp fish hook of concepts :complaining: can be released of the dreamlike appearance; compassion will reach each direction, and wisdom that transcends duality will be.

thecap wrote:May he live long!

May he live long!

Drolma wrote:

kiman wrote:Dharmsala, India -- The Tibetan spiritual leader, the
Dalai Lama, in an interview with Taiwan television aired on Sunday,
said he is in excellent health - but won't seek reincarnation.

http://buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=42,7869,0,0,1,0

I don't know what to think of this. Why is he leaving it up to the people if he should reincarnate? I read the article but still don't quite understand.

Thanks for any explanations

Hi, Drolma. I may be wrong, but I believe I had read/heard HH say that he won't reincarnate in Tibet (for reasons we can imagine). Also thought he said he may reincarnate, but the recognition of being the Dalai Lama (or the need for one) may be left up to the people of Tibet. I could be misinformed though...Hope that makes sense...
Another difficulty lies with the continuing saga of the Panchen Lama in China. Allegedly, with the real Panchen Lama a political prisoner and the Chinese producing their own selection, this may create an issue as the Panchen Lama throughout histoy has a role in recognizing the Dalai Lama's and vice-versa if I'm not mistaken.

I had a good conversation with someone regarding this situation. The 16th Karmapa died at a relatively young age. Upon finding his succesor (in '85 I think), the 17th Karmapa is now old enough to fill the role when the time comes. It is said that Karmapa is also an emination (?) of Aviloketesvara as HHDL is. Considering the timing of these things is very interesting to say the least. Even thinking about the timing of when HHDL was recognized as the reincarnation of the 13th DL was at such a time when he would just be old enough to deal with some very real and serious issues in the mid to late 1950's with the invasion of the Chinese.

Something to consider....


The 13th Dalai Lama predicted before dying:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
"Very soon in this land (with a harmonious blend of religion and politics) deceptive acts may occur from without and within. At that time, if we do not dare to protect our territory, our spiritual personalities including the Victorious Father and Son (Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama) may be exterminated without trace, the property and authority of our Lakangs (residences of reincarnated lamas) and monks may be taken away. Moreover, our political system, developed by the Three Great Dharma Kings (Tri Songtsen Gampo, Tri Songdetsen and Tri Ralpachen) will vanish without anything remaining. The property of all people, high and low, will be seized and the people forced to become slaves. All living beings will have to endure endless days of suffering and will be stricken with fear. Such a time will come."</BLOCKQUOTE>
Furthermore, the 13th Dalai Lama went on to predict the invasion of Tibet and announced that he would die early, in order that his successor would be old enough to act as a leader for the Tibetan people at the time of this invasion. He died several months later.^[

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

In the land encircled by snow mountains
You are the source of all happiness and good;
All-powerful Chenrezig, Tenzin Gyatso,
Please remain until samsara ends.

Drolma wrote:In the land encircled by snow mountains
You are the source of all happiness and good;
All-powerful Chenrezig, Tenzin Gyatso,
Please remain until samsara ends.

Apparently he's not......

peace

xxx

caz namyaw wrote:

Well i suppose when the dalai lama passess away hopefully thing will go back to some relative normality the dalai lamas political interference with tibet had actually probley made the situation worse for monks there then it already was.

peace

xxx

The Dalai Lama's political interference has made the situation for monks worse?

The Dalai Lama system has been in place for a very long time, with these tulkus being the spiritual and temporal leaders of Tibet. Since the 14th century in fact. I would hardly call the work of the Dalai Lama "interference."

Perhaps if you could look at the bigger picture and give some thought to whom you're interacting with, you would speak with more consideration for the feelings of other practitioners. Some of us have samaya with this lama. Do you see us making comments at every possible opportunity about GKG? Of course not.

I only ask that you provide us the same respect and mindfulness that we offer you here at this forum.

Drolma wrote:

caz namyaw wrote:

Well i suppose when the dalai lama passess away hopefully thing will go back to some relative normality the dalai lamas political interference with tibet had actually probley made the situation worse for monks there then it already was.

peace

xxx

The Dalai Lama's political interference has made the situation for monks worse?

The Dalai Lama system has been in place for a very long time, with these tulkus being the spiritual and temporal leaders of Tibet. Since the 14th century in fact. I would hardly call the work of the Dalai Lama "interference."

Perhaps if you could look at the bigger picture and give some thought to whom you're interacting with, you would speak with more consideration for the feelings of other practitioners. Some of us have samaya with this lama. Do you see us making comments at every possible opportunity about GKG? Of course not.

I only ask that you provide us the same respect and mindfulness that we offer you here at this forum.

In the context of what i ment drolma, do you think monks living under chinese rule will benifit from the dalai lamas influence or will it make it worse for them having connection with him ? logically the awnser would be yes it would make living much more difficult for them seeing as china views the dalai lama as a seperatist...many monestrys have been destroyed since the time of the invasion...perhapes this has been made worse by fact of association, perhapes not simply another view.

In the context of now the dalai lamas have been rulers of tibet in the past they are not anymore, So it is understandable why he is no longer taking rebirth if he is unable to fuffill this political function.
Yes i understand that many people have bonds and i respect that, but perhapes you are mistaking what i am saying for an attack rather then a valid point.
I understand having samaya with a master can make it difficult to talk about them and their actions without a sense of taboo, but realistically we cannot pretend that the actions they are creating will not be without effects, granted he has made many good things happen in the past just he has made some cock ups as well....but really do you think monks in tibet having political affiliation with this man will ease their suffering or burden of living under a system that doesnt tolerate him and throws away bans his pictures from being hung in monestrys ?

The bigger picture is political involvment in a religious context will only result in problems and futher suffering for those living under chinese occupation.

In the best interests of the dalai lama drolma do you think it is wise for him to continue with a political mindset outside the boundrys of tibet where formally was the dalai lamas stomping ground ? In the interest of the monks in tibet i do not think so.

I hope you understand what i say and i dont mean it in an offensive way.

peace

xxx

Having spiritual connection with the Dalai Lama is not the source of suffering for the people of Tibet. Nor would it be in the future. It is auspicious in the eyes of many of us. The Dalai Lama is not to blame for the actions of the PRC.

For having the understanding of Tibetan Buddhism that you posses Caz, I'm frankly disappointed by your comments. There are tremendous spiritual implications involved in one's choice in a vajra guru that transcend the Chinese occupation in Tibet and samsara in general. And certainly samaya transcends this lifetime. I'm sure you're aware of the guru-student relationship. Is it more compassionate for the Dalai Lama to not take any more students because the PRC persistently goes after him? Doubtful.

Drolma wrote:Having spiritual connection with the Dalai Lama is not the source of suffering for the people of Tibet. Nor would it be in the future. It is auspicious in the eyes of many of us. The Dalai Lama is not to blame for the actions of the PRC.

For having the understanding of Tibetan Buddhism that you posses Caz, I'm frankly disappointed by your comments. There are tremendous spiritual implications involved in one's choice in a vajra guru that transcend the Chinese occupation in Tibet and samsara in general. And certainly samaya transcends this lifetime. I'm sure you're aware of the guru-student relationship. Is it more compassionate for the Dalai Lama to not take any more students because the PRC persistently goes after him? Doubtful.

See this is where the problem of defining what is spiritual and what is political, im not saying that he shouldnt take any students or be looked up to in tibet rather what i mean is the political implications of his actions will have an effect on those who have taken him as a spiritual guide living in tibet, especially the monks, straightly put drolma i dont think the dalai lama is a stupid person he knows what actions will have what effects, so imagine this from a chinese point of view the main thing they dislike about the dalai lama is his seperatist attitude in their view, so logically for them the step they would take if monestrys under their control began to express their faith for the dalai lama would be to severly punish them for their blatant disobediance....because of the dalai lamas political actions over the past 30 years they view him as an enemy, not to mention the people around the dalai lama who founded gurreilla groups to try and rid tibet of the chinese, understandably from their point of view they see that because of these political implications of his actions that any monks who assocciate with him may be of a similar threat, this dear drolma is why i have said that his political actions may have made it harder for monks in tibet, i was not refering to his spiritual actions, and i wasnt in anyway attempting to critises his holinesses spiritual choice or such i was just observing the actions and effect of his political choices, i wasnt infering or saying that he should no longer take students in tibet...its just rather more dangerous for those people living in tibet to be associated with him now because of his politics.
Thats why ive always taken a dislike to politics in religion as it can make practise much harder for students who may get caught between two political giants for trying to practise their spirituallity.

peace

xxx

peac

I don't know what political choices you're talking about Caz, but you keep saying that. The Dalai Lama has consistently tried to gain autonomy, not independence for Tibet. And he has done so in a peaceful manner.

I'm glad that you're expressing your opinions in a more sensitive manner now, as our conversation has progressed. But you still sound like a PRC propaganda machine. Because you are not some John Doe I don't know, I'm not hitting the 'off' switch.

caz namyaw wrote:not to mention the people around the dalai lama who founded gurreilla groups to try and rid tibet of the chinese, understandably from their point of view they see that because of these political implications of his actions that any monks who assocciate with him may be of a similar threat,

Proof please. Or retract this statement.

Om Mani Peme Hung.

Drolma wrote:

caz namyaw wrote:not to mention the people around the dalai lama who founded gurreilla groups to try and rid tibet of the chinese, understandably from their point of view they see that because of these political implications of his actions that any monks who assocciate with him may be of a similar threat,

Proof please. Or retract this statement.

http://www.state.gov/www/about_state/history/vol_xxx/337_343.html

There you go.

peace

xxx