Re: Rime Movement

by malalu Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:26 am

Thanks!

Great picture, too.

by muni Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:42 am

sherab zangpo wrote:

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

When I went to greet Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse his grandson I went down on the ground. Shechen Rabjam, same smile as Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, putted one hand on my head. I couldn't move anymore, was laying on the ground...so..........no words. A voice inside of me said: come on, get up!

I understood what is meant with love. Very Happy

See the preocupations of beings as being like the events in a dream, watch them like an old man watching children play and love them boundless.

by muni Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:36 am

I cannot imagine how people are feeling emerged of one kind of teaching or one tradition. I am deeply grateful to get teaching of other traditions. Maybe this is clinging to teaching in some degree.
It is sometimes like filling an empty place in insight or a flash light.

Even older tradition as to have respect for all surrounding magical world around us is not contradicting in that way the Dharma I think. Respect grows what is a push to give the self completely to other human fellows, animals, plants existences; even stones.

Other schools' teaching doesn' t contradict the essence. Maybe for others it appears as it does. sunny

Don't know.

by caz namyaw Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:25 am

muni wrote:I cannot imagine how people are feeling emerged of one kind of teaching or one tradition. I am deeply grateful to get teaching of other traditions. Maybe this is clinging to teaching in some degree.
It is sometimes like filling an empty place in insight or a flash light.

Even older tradition as to have respect for all surrounding magical world around us is not contradicting in that way the Dharma I think. Respect grows what is a push to give the self completely to other human fellows, animals, plants existences; even stones.

Other schools' teaching doesn' t contradict the essence. Maybe for others it appears as it does. Don't know.

They all lead to the same place, but perhapes studying multiple teachings is work enough for more then one lifetime.

peace

xxx

by sherab zangpo Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:57 am

The bee
The deer
The lion
The madman

by dorje Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:28 am

caz namyaw wrote:They all lead to the same place, but perhapes studying multiple teachings is work enough for more then one lifetime.

peace

xxx

Actually, Sapan noted that anyone who has acquired a precious human birth can fully learn Tantra in 7 years maximum.

by muni Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:10 pm

caz namyaw wrote:
muni wrote:I cannot imagine how people are feeling emerged of one kind of teaching or one tradition. I am deeply grateful to get teaching of other traditions. Maybe this is clinging to teaching in some degree.
It is sometimes like filling an empty place in insight or a flash light.

Even older tradition as to have respect for all surrounding magical world around us is not contradicting in that way the Dharma I think. Respect grows what is a push to give the self completely to other human fellows, animals, plants existences; even stones.

Other schools' teaching doesn' t contradict the essence. Maybe for others it appears as it does. Don't know.

They all lead to the same place, but perhapes studying multiple teachings is work enough for more then one lifetime.

peace

xxx

When I am filled with water and urgently need a toilet I am not waiting by one particular door but take the first one which is open.

I am a thief, a magpie. Nyingma is open mind, Gelug is sharp analyse, Kagyu is funny clarity and Sakya is pointing to: you silly woman.

Place? Very Happy

by caz namyaw Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:21 pm

muni wrote:
caz namyaw wrote:
muni wrote:I cannot imagine how people are feeling emerged of one kind of teaching or one tradition. I am deeply grateful to get teaching of other traditions. Maybe this is clinging to teaching in some degree.
It is sometimes like filling an empty place in insight or a flash light.

Even older tradition as to have respect for all surrounding magical world around us is not contradicting in that way the Dharma I think. Respect grows what is a push to give the self completely to other human fellows, animals, plants existences; even stones.

Other schools' teaching doesn' t contradict the essence. Maybe for others it appears as it does. Don't know.

They all lead to the same place, but perhapes studying multiple teachings is work enough for more then one lifetime.

peace

xxx
When I am filled with water and urgently need a toilet I am not waiting by one particular door but take the first one which is open.

I am a thief, a magpie. Nyingma is open mind, Gelug is sharp analyse, Kagyu is funny clarity and Sakya is pointing to: you silly woman.

Place?

But dharma is not something that must be pissed out dear muni Wink

The end completion of each 4 schools is the same, by accomplishing one practise you accomplish them all, weather Nyingma , Geluga, kagyu or sakya by completing your own schools path you will attain full enlightenment, being non sectarian is all well and good but at the end of the day each path is a complete method and practise to full enlightenment, its an extra marathon to take on more methods when anyone is enough to deal with the obstruction, unless it is being implied that these said 4 schools have completly lost their ability to take people to enlightenment without combining the teachings ?

peace

xxx

by caz namyaw Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:24 pm

dorje wrote:
caz namyaw wrote:They all lead to the same place, but perhapes studying multiple teachings is work enough for more then one lifetime.

peace

xxx

Actually, Sapan noted that anyone who has acquired a precious human birth can fully learn Tantra in 7 years maximum.

Yes but time and place must be taken into context, in the west people do not have a lot of time for intensive retreats how can applying what can conceptually seem to be vastly different methods into one path make it any easier for people with little time to practise ?

peace

xxx

by muni Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:39 pm

I don't know how people does friend. I mingle Dharma ( most Dzogchen ) in daily life. Spontaneous and naturally, no strong striving. Spreading my wings in Lhayul where no tricky mind is trying to tell me something need to be reached. And while dwelling in dreamland ( daily mandala) see that Lhayul (purity) becomes one with dreamland as soon as the tricky mind stops its foolish activity. And so to perfection. Work to do. Have no one way ticket.

Sometimes it goes wrong, like by health problems. But the people can still remain aware at certain level.

I should answer: to bring teaching into the daily life with awareness.

by muni Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:14 pm

caz namyaw wrote:
muni wrote:
caz namyaw wrote:
muni wrote:I cannot imagine how people are feeling emerged of one kind of teaching or one tradition. I am deeply grateful to get teaching of other traditions. Maybe this is clinging to teaching in some degree.
It is sometimes like filling an empty place in insight or a flash light.

Even older tradition as to have respect for all surrounding magical world around us is not contradicting in that way the Dharma I think. Respect grows what is a push to give the self completely to other human fellows, animals, plants existences; even stones.

Other schools' teaching doesn' t contradict the essence. Maybe for others it appears as it does. Don't know.

They all lead to the same place, but perhapes studying multiple teachings is work enough for more then one lifetime.

peace

xxx
When I am filled with water and urgently need a toilet I am not waiting by one particular door but take the first one which is open.

I am a thief, a magpie. Nyingma is open mind, Gelug is sharp analyse, Kagyu is funny clarity and Sakya is pointing to: you silly woman.

Place?

But dharma is not something that must be pissed out dear muni
The end completion of each 4 schools is the same, by accomplishing one practise you accomplish them all, weather Nyingma , Geluga, kagyu or sakya by completing your own schools path you will attain full enlightenment, being non sectarian is all well and good but at the end of the day each path is a complete method and practise to full enlightenment, its an extra marathon to take on more methods when anyone is enough to deal with the obstruction, unless it is being implied that these said 4 schools have completly lost their ability to take people to enlightenment without combining the teachings ?

peace

xxx

For me there is no diplome to reach with upgrade toward enlightenment or a key to obtain in order to open the gate but to recognize pure mind. It is not mixing teachings and forms of words together in a pot. Only when I see a light of wisdom, I don't turn my back. But deep respect is. Like that.
Marathon?
Nobody need to combine, need nothing what about me. Wink

by caz namyaw Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:30 pm

muni wrote:
caz namyaw wrote:
muni wrote:
caz namyaw wrote:
muni wrote:I cannot imagine how people are feeling emerged of one kind of teaching or one tradition. I am deeply grateful to get teaching of other traditions. Maybe this is clinging to teaching in some degree.
It is sometimes like filling an empty place in insight or a flash light.

Even older tradition as to have respect for all surrounding magical world around us is not contradicting in that way the Dharma I think. Respect grows what is a push to give the self completely to other human fellows, animals, plants existences; even stones.

Other schools' teaching doesn' t contradict the essence. Maybe for others it appears as it does. Don't know.

They all lead to the same place, but perhapes studying multiple teachings is work enough for more then one lifetime.

peace

xxx
When I am filled with water and urgently need a toilet I am not waiting by one particular door but take the first one which is open.

I am a thief, a magpie. Nyingma is open mind, Gelug is sharp analyse, Kagyu is funny clarity and Sakya is pointing to: you silly woman.

Place?

But dharma is not something that must be pissed out dear muni
The end completion of each 4 schools is the same, by accomplishing one practise you accomplish them all, weather Nyingma , Geluga, kagyu or sakya by completing your own schools path you will attain full enlightenment, being non sectarian is all well and good but at the end of the day each path is a complete method and practise to full enlightenment, its an extra marathon to take on more methods when anyone is enough to deal with the obstruction, unless it is being implied that these said 4 schools have completly lost their ability to take people to enlightenment without combining the teachings ?

peace

xxx
For me there is no diplome to reach with upgrade toward enlightenment or a key to obtain in order to open the gate but to recognize pure mind. It is not mixing teachings and forms of words together in a pot. Only when I see a light of wisdom, I don't turn my back. But deep respect is. Like that.
Marathon?
Nobody need to combine, need nothing what about me.

Yes i respect other teachings to, but i recognise i dont need to practise everything enlightenment comes in many methods, in my view it is important to maintain the authenticity of teachings of whatever tradition a person is practising in order to preserve them for the future.

peace

xxx

by dorje Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:02 am

caz namyaw wrote:

Yes but time and place must be taken into context, in the west people do not have a lot of time for intensive retreats how can applying what can conceptually seem to be vastly different methods into one path make it any easier for people with little time to practise ?

peace

xxx

Actually, life way back then is not less stressful than it is now. Just that people nowadays have more distractions than usual.

If you can remove most of the distractions through basic commonsensical practices, Tantra in 7 years is not a problem.

How we manage time is basically how we manage distractions.

by muni Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:00 am

Oh yes, Caz, to maintain teachings for others is very very important. I agree.
But I see two views in this: mix teachings with for example modern new wave extracts which are trying to get an I-self in enlightenment state is certainly not to recommend.
But at the other hand when I die, will I have to go alone. My beloved tradition, beloved teachers and beloved friends will not keep my hand to see the tricky mind. Guidance only.
And also it is clinging when I say: my tradition. Therefore I say "no" to mind what clings to name and form and so I pick with reflection some grains of "others". (But of course my main tradition is the best. :biggrin: )

by caz namyaw Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:00 am

muni wrote:Oh yes, Caz, to maintain teachings for others is very very important. I agree.
But I see two views in this: mix teachings with for example modern new wave extracts which are trying to get an I-self in enlightenment state is certainly not to recommend.
But at the other hand when I die, will I have to go alone. My beloved tradition, beloved teachers and beloved friends will not keep my hand to see the tricky mind. Guidance only.
And also it is clinging when I say: my tradition. Therefore I say "no" to mind what clings to name and form and so I pick with reflection some grains of "others". (But of course my main tradition is the best. :biggrin: )

More or less im worried that this Non sectarian movement will be taken far to the extreme and people will begin to forget what method they are practising, preserving traditions is very very important in order to maintain authenticity and for future generations its true as you say i will not be able to take them with me teachers will not be able to hold my hand however at present if traditions begin to dengenerate and loose course then this will be bad for everyone in the long run.

peace

xxx

by muni Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:43 am

I am sorry but I see nothing wrong in stealing lights of other schools. Wink

Not the multiple teaching in Buddhism but own tricking mind can lose the important value of Dharma. This by clinging to delusions.
I think there are a lot of teachings in the more and the more languages available. Lots of texts, even impermanent.
Ah, concepts. Nature just is. And people follow there path like their stream. I only hope people are not subtle clinging but will dwell in freedom.

by **LauraJ** Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:22 pm

Why the paranoia about purity of lineage Caz? The more people know about various traditions, the greater the likelihood of vajrayana surviving. If someone has found a teacher and a method that work, that's great. And if it's a genuine connection then hopefully it's not very vulnerable and easy to pollute. I've never heard of widening one's range of knowledge polluting anything.

by caz namyaw Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:28 pm

Drolma wrote:Why the paranoia about purity of lineage Caz? The more people know about various traditions, the greater the likelihood of vajrayana surviving. If someone has found a teacher and a method that work, that's great. And if it's a genuine connection then hopefully it's not very vulnerable and easy to pollute. I've never heard of widening one's range of knowledge polluting anything.

They are all different methods for different people they embody 4 seperate methods, follow the yellow brick road dorathy.

peace

xxx

by dorje Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:19 am

There is no "4 separate methods", because tantra is tantra is tantra.

Ngondro, Guru Yoga, Vajrasattva, Tsog, the Generation and Completion stages, etc, are pretty much standard. The differences are usually the visualisations and the words in the sadhana, and they vary according to the yidam. Apart from that you do not see any difference at all.

by muni Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:18 am

When conceptualization is turning teaching into obstacles well, we are far away from a happy warm dwelling, rather craving in solid forms of samsara. But this is idea only. _/\_

:bah:

by muni Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:53 am

I prefer to shameless absorb wisdom, to not grasp to thoughts-things as they should be mine.

Using the boat is very useful and worthful but not to cross the field. :bah:

by caz namyaw Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:19 pm

dorje wrote:There is no "4 separate methods", because tantra is tantra is tantra.

Ngondro, Guru Yoga, Vajrasattva, Tsog, the Generation and Completion stages, etc, are pretty much standard. The differences are usually the visualisations and the words in the sadhana, and they vary according to the yidam. Apart from that you do not see any difference at all.

Well if there was no need for these 4 seperate paths then why are they here in the first place Razz

peace

xxx

by dorje Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:44 am

caz namyaw wrote:

Well if there was no need for these 4 seperate paths then why are they here in the first place

peace

xxx

Because different people received teachings from different teachers, and along the way there were different instructions imparted.

If you have really received abhishekas, you've realized by now that the lineage always originate from Buddha Vajradhara or Buddha Samantabhadra, who really are in essence one and the same.

by sherab zangpo Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:13 pm

caz namyaw wrote: but i recognise i dont need to practise everything

xxx

If you recognize the essence of dhama, then you
will also recognize there is no fault in practicing what one wishes.
You have that realization. One can practice with freedom from
limitations.

Sherab

by caz namyaw Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:32 pm

sherab zangpo wrote:
caz namyaw wrote: but i recognise i dont need to practise everything

xxx

If you recognize the essence of dhama, then you
will also recognize there is no fault in practicing what one wishes.
You have that realization. One can practice with freedom from
limitations.

Sherab

Yep ive come to the conclusion that some of my opinion has been based on ignorance please forgive me people are very much free to practise what ever they want, however im more concerned for preserving the teachings of these 4 lineages they have many great benifits for people i do not want to see them dissapear in a wave of extreme inclusivism and eventually loose all flavour.
I rejoice in the practise of all dharma and respectfully recognise that all traditions have a path to full enlightenment, and i also recognise that i dont need to practise the more then one tradition those who wish to are free to do as they wish, i am happy with following one path.

peace

xxx

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