Vajra Guru Mantra

I guess we have not shared the same experience as you, Dorje. That does not make your view more correct.

Your 'tone' seems annoyed. We were discussing the OP in which it was stated:
''Whether Nyingmapa, Sakyapa, Kagyupa or Gelugpa, we all recite the invocation to Vajra Guru Rinpoche''.

So to consider whether the mantra is really a widespread Gelug practice is very much 'on topic'.

If the assertion were true, then your assertion that only HYT students know about it would contradict that assertion. Why would anyone else care to chant it, if in ignorance, and why would anyone make a secret practice available to those not yet ready to receive it?

You have simply repeated the OP, so I guess you are also somewhat adrift?

The reason it's placed in the Ngagrim Chenmo is because the explanation of the Vajra Guru Mantra in there is essentially that of HYT and above (meaning Mahamudra and Dzogchen).

I have no idea why it is not practiced widely among the Gelugpas now, since it was still widely propagated by the Great Thirteenth, especially in his own personal monastery, Namgyal. I understand that it is widely propagated by the Ganden Tripas up till now.

Hmmmm. I just found these and they're very similar.

Om Ah Hum Vajra guru Padma siddhi Hum
Om ah Hung benzra guru pema shidhi hung!
I prostrate to the great Vajra guru Padmasambhava, Please give me your supreme blessings!

Om ah Guru vajradhara Sumati Kirti Siddhi Hum Hum
Om ah guru bejar dhara sumati kiti shidhi hung hung!
I prostrate to the guru Vajradhara Tsongkhapa, please give me your supreme blessings!

Yes, the wording of mantras is often similar, with the relevant deity inserted.
There is also some variation in how the Tibetan wording is represented in our alphabet.


The mantra of Je Tsongkhapa I know is this one, an extension of that of Manjusahri:

OM AH RA PA TSA NA DHI
SU MA TI KIRTI SHIRI
BHADRA AH THI TA NA AH
THI TI TE KUR BEN TU

Wherever possible, I demur to the original Sanskrit, to get as close as possible to the original.

Due to the number of enlightened Tibetan beings, that language is now accepted as an official 'Dharma language' like Sanskrit and Pali, but I think this is an irrelevance - after all Buddhas can understand plain English as well as any other tongue. I prefer Sanskrit purely for its accuracy and my own superstitious regard for its power.

dorje wrote:The reason it's placed in the Ngagrim Chenmo is because the explanation of the Vajra Guru Mantra in there is essentially that of HYT and above (meaning Mahamudra and Dzogchen).

I have no idea why it is not practiced widely among the Gelugpas now, since it was still widely propagated by the Great Thirteenth, especially in his own personal monastery, Namgyal. I understand that it is widely propagated by the Ganden Tripas up till now.

Perhapes dorje they finally realized that there was already a full path before them no need to add or take away.

peace

xxx

That's not true.

If there's nothing to take away, then why was the Vajra Guru Mantra not propagated? isn't that another method of taking something away?

[quote="dorje"]That's not true.

If there's nothing to take away, then why was the Vajra Guru Mantra not propagated? isn't that another method of taking something away?[/quote

Because vajra guru mantra isnt part of Gelugpa buddhism, Guru rinpoche was the founder of nyigma buddhism, Atisha is the founder and from where gelugpa buddhism stems from, although guru rinpoche is recognised a an emination of manjushri his practise hasnt ever been a part of the tradition of Je tsongkhapa, moder practitoners who practise this within the Gelugpa tradition are mixing traditions. Through mixing them you loose their uniqness. it pollutes the traditions.

You cannot take the mantra away as it has never been an offical practise of the tradition of Je tsongkhapa, todays practitoners are mixing traditions they where laided out in a particular way by the holy masters and should be kept that way.

peace

xxx

You are mistaken.

You need to do more research on the other traditions, and especially how Je Tsongkhapa was essentially a Rime practitioner.

He essentially was a Sakyapa who was ordained by a Kagyupa. He took Nyingmapa and Kagyupa and Kadampa and Jonangpa and Sakyapa practices and systematically re-intepreted them to fit together.

Looking at how the other traditions revered Guru Rinpoche, I do not see any reason whatsoever that the Gelugpas have a say in not practicing Guru Rinpoche, especially when Je Tsongkhapa practiced the termas and rushens of Guru Rinpoche.

dorje wrote:You are mistaken.

You need to do more research on the other traditions, and especially how Je Tsongkhapa was essentially a Rime practitioner.

He essentially was a Sakyapa who was ordained by a Kagyupa. He took Nyingmapa and Kagyupa and Kadampa and Jonangpa and Sakyapa practices and systematically re-intepreted them to fit together.

Looking at how the other traditions revered Guru Rinpoche, I do not see any reason whatsoever that the Gelugpas have a say in not practicing Guru Rinpoche, especially when Je Tsongkhapa practiced the termas and rushens of Guru Rinpoche.

Je tsongkhapa formed a new tradition, He may have ordained with various schools and such but many masters have done that in the past for example in india the teachings where very much scattered and one had to travel about from various masters to others to get full advantage of the specialisation they had to offer.

Je tsongkhapa formed his tradition based on his learnings and what would be appropriate for a different capacity of practitoner he may have practise guru rinpoche mantra during his time with nygmas but the practise has never been an offical part of the tradition of je tsongkhapa.
The Mantra of guru rinpoche is not a part of the tradition of je tsongkhapa, only people mixing traditions now are practising this in conjunction. Guru rinpoche is a nygma practise you cannot attribute gelugpa's to have ever practised in the past main stream. unless you could provide a source in which to say it has been a main stream gelugpa practise dorje ?

peace

xxx

Im deleting off topic posts.

If you wish to discuss, then please do open up another topic.

best wishes

sherab

When you invoke Padmasambhava you can do so by chanting the ‘Seven-Line Prayer’, the prayer that is most commonly used in the Nyingma and Dzogchen traditions.

I have no need to say more here.

Today is powerful day to recite Guru Padmasambhava mantra and prayers.

Then good for those who do....May the nyigmas have a good day.

peace

xxx

Yarlung Tsangpo to ward Samye.

http://www.allspiritfitness.com/library/books/bl_Samye_Rev.shtml

This is a very interesting book with good explanations and illustrations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9PLWPUHso

This is filling the house here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9PLWPUHso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwPppmCEVN4 This is turning now and dedicated to all.

http://www.divinepowers.org/vajragurumantra.html _/\_

Beautiful, thank you muni!

I love the Youtube

Drolma wrote:Beautiful, thank you muni!

I love the Youtube

Oh Dear. It comes from this CD: "Mantras from Tibet" Vajra Guru Mantra 54:45 minutes and Om Mani Padme Hum 11:30 minutes.
By Sarva-Antah. Sacred Music Series. :namaste:

http://www.last.fm/music/Sarva-Antah

Kinda nice.